Gender discrimination goes both ways; The connection between neighborhood “belonging” & fertility; The kin-poor rich; Stop pretending remote work isn't great; The rise of female-headed households.
The thing that's essential to understand about which marriages are happiest is a very surprising fact. In most female breadwinner marriages fathers do less childcare and housework than their wives. These marriages are pretty terrible, on average. These men, on average, are more likely to beat and cheat on their wives than male breadwinners.
The study excluded those marriages, seemingly, and only looked at female breadwinner marriages where the fathers are the primary caregivers. That those marriages would be less happy than equal marriages or semi-traditional marriages makes intuitive sense to me. Equal marriages probably have the least abuse and semi-traditional marriages probably have the most.
My in utero babies have always liked throwing a party late at night, and throughout all 4 pregnancies I compensated by doing my writing at night. Indeed, with my first, I finished a legal brief, went to bed, lay down for 10 minutes, and my water broke 🤣. Really interested in the study about kin networks for the elderly. We often talk about having children as if it is no longer economically beneficial but — as the studies you cite reflect — it is still obviously beneficial to have involved adult children as you age. Maybe something the pronatalists should talk up more!
My husband and I have a unique perspective on equality. I took time off to be a mom and work on my side gig when our kid was younger and very demanding of me. When she went to preschool, i went back to work. My husband then got laid off and it took him a while to find something, so he was the primary parent for a while.
The thing that matters most seems to be how much we are aware of each others' difficulties. I didn't realize until I went back to work how challenging it is to work from home with a child as my husband had been doing. Like, I "knew" that, but it took being in that same situation for it to sink in. And my husband quickly lost motivation for work when he spent all day with the kid and got frustrated with chores. This shared understanding of each other's experiences helps us anticipate each other's difficulties instead of saying things like "what do you do all day" or being mad at each other for not doing more.
I think it's interesting funny that male satisfaction basically didn't change in any of those conditions. They were all relatively happy no matter what. Only the women's satisfaction changed depending on their situation.
I don’t have access to the full article on time use and well-being, but at least in US CPS samples (where the American Time Use Survey respondents are drawn from), maternal employment with younger kids is directly related with education and with pre-baby earnings when that data is available. Given that more education generally means higher earnings, I’m curious whether the results controlled for education/earning - do moms with HS diplomas and in semi-traditional arrangements have significantly different well being levels than moms with HS diplomas in 50/50 arrangements? Like you noted, they found the semi-traditional group was more likely to have younger kids (that tracks with CPS data) and lower education, lower earning, and more kids are also all directly related to less likely to be in the labor force and less likely for kids under kindergarten to have regular non-parental childcare.
Yeah good points. It doesn't look to me like they controlled for education/income but they did...analyze it, I guess. The equal sharers had higher combined household income but lower individual incomes than the breadwinning moms or dads. And the study did note that "there were no significant differences between the three study groups in educational qualifications, ethnicity or region where they lived."
To your point of neighborhood belonging, I actually feel that quite acutely. We wonder about moving to a neighborhood more tailored for us. Friends within a stone's throw so socializing wouldn't be such a pain, and schools we don't have to be anxious about. If we have to worry about moving, we've to earmark money for that and then having more kids is a daunting prospect. If we can be happy with where we are, we can just have more kids.
In the happiness in marriage study, my first thought was: how old are the kids and how many are there? Taking care of 3 under 5 is so much more tiring than when the kids can start to: tie their own shoes/ buckle their own seatbelts/ tell jokes/ help set the table/ take their own bath etc etc etc. I also would love to know more about how much money the household has- if the wife is doing most of the domestic work, can they afford a cleaner or babysitter, etc? Were any of the families in “more traditional” arrangements in an older and wealthier stage of life?
Second I wondered about the definition of “headship” used in the study about the rise in female headship. Is it basically “chief decision maker”?
To your first point, the study did note that the couples in "equal" relationships had fewer and older kids, which I suspect must be related lol. And they tended to have lower individual incomes than the breadwinner men, but large total household incomes.
I think the definition of "headship" varied but if I understand correctly it's largely a nominal, record-keeping thing for Census-taking. So it's not like it's necessarily tied to decision-making or earning or something like that (though I think the authors suspect that the rise of breadwinning women might explain some of the rise in female headship).
Thanks- Yes, fewer older kids and larger overall household income seem to me like more significant factors than division of labour! I don’t know how you could adjust for it, but it seems like if they could, the outcomes might be very different.
I have no real understanding of the science of stats or data collection so forgive this question but does this mean that for the purposes of census data, in the past, “male headship” meant that the man kept the household records?
Yes, I agree on your first point! I'll have to get back to you on that second question. I suspect not, to be honest. I think it's more like, someone from the Census knocks on your door and asks whoever answers to fill out a form, and there is a spot on there that asks who the head of the household is, without much specification about what that means? I do think that it used to be in the U.S. (and still is in some places), that the wording sort of implies that the head of the household will be the man if the household. But the U.S. and other places have moved to a gender neutral wording. But let me check and get back to you!
Thanks! It’s just fascinating to me bc discussions of headship in marriage more broadly (beyond sociological studies) often fail to define the term, and then if those discussions do cite studies, at that point often nobody is actually talking about the same thing 😅. I feel like at least some arguments might be avoided (or points of disagreement clarified), if there were clearer definitions of terms.
Well, yes. But on philosophical grounds (which one would suppose would make a difference in the way the marriage works out) there seems to be a pretty clean break between “My wife works outside the home, just not that much (or I make a lot more than she does?)” vs “My wife doesn’t work outside the home.”
Yeah maybe, though I am not sure sole male breadwinning always (or even usually) represents a unique philosophical stance. Other than "I am doing what I think is best for my family right now," which underpins a ton of work arrangements. It would certainly be interesting to see how relationship satisfaction in sole male breadwinner marriages compares to others. Kinda doubt they'd be specifically better off than the other semi traditional couples tbh but perhaps!
Just popping in to say I like the number of articles covered and the length! Wouldn’t mind a bit more on each, but the current format is great for me.
Thank you!
The thing that's essential to understand about which marriages are happiest is a very surprising fact. In most female breadwinner marriages fathers do less childcare and housework than their wives. These marriages are pretty terrible, on average. These men, on average, are more likely to beat and cheat on their wives than male breadwinners.
The study excluded those marriages, seemingly, and only looked at female breadwinner marriages where the fathers are the primary caregivers. That those marriages would be less happy than equal marriages or semi-traditional marriages makes intuitive sense to me. Equal marriages probably have the least abuse and semi-traditional marriages probably have the most.
My in utero babies have always liked throwing a party late at night, and throughout all 4 pregnancies I compensated by doing my writing at night. Indeed, with my first, I finished a legal brief, went to bed, lay down for 10 minutes, and my water broke 🤣. Really interested in the study about kin networks for the elderly. We often talk about having children as if it is no longer economically beneficial but — as the studies you cite reflect — it is still obviously beneficial to have involved adult children as you age. Maybe something the pronatalists should talk up more!
My husband and I have a unique perspective on equality. I took time off to be a mom and work on my side gig when our kid was younger and very demanding of me. When she went to preschool, i went back to work. My husband then got laid off and it took him a while to find something, so he was the primary parent for a while.
The thing that matters most seems to be how much we are aware of each others' difficulties. I didn't realize until I went back to work how challenging it is to work from home with a child as my husband had been doing. Like, I "knew" that, but it took being in that same situation for it to sink in. And my husband quickly lost motivation for work when he spent all day with the kid and got frustrated with chores. This shared understanding of each other's experiences helps us anticipate each other's difficulties instead of saying things like "what do you do all day" or being mad at each other for not doing more.
I think it's interesting funny that male satisfaction basically didn't change in any of those conditions. They were all relatively happy no matter what. Only the women's satisfaction changed depending on their situation.
I don’t have access to the full article on time use and well-being, but at least in US CPS samples (where the American Time Use Survey respondents are drawn from), maternal employment with younger kids is directly related with education and with pre-baby earnings when that data is available. Given that more education generally means higher earnings, I’m curious whether the results controlled for education/earning - do moms with HS diplomas and in semi-traditional arrangements have significantly different well being levels than moms with HS diplomas in 50/50 arrangements? Like you noted, they found the semi-traditional group was more likely to have younger kids (that tracks with CPS data) and lower education, lower earning, and more kids are also all directly related to less likely to be in the labor force and less likely for kids under kindergarten to have regular non-parental childcare.
Yeah good points. It doesn't look to me like they controlled for education/income but they did...analyze it, I guess. The equal sharers had higher combined household income but lower individual incomes than the breadwinning moms or dads. And the study did note that "there were no significant differences between the three study groups in educational qualifications, ethnicity or region where they lived."
To your point of neighborhood belonging, I actually feel that quite acutely. We wonder about moving to a neighborhood more tailored for us. Friends within a stone's throw so socializing wouldn't be such a pain, and schools we don't have to be anxious about. If we have to worry about moving, we've to earmark money for that and then having more kids is a daunting prospect. If we can be happy with where we are, we can just have more kids.
Interesting! I had a couple questions:
In the happiness in marriage study, my first thought was: how old are the kids and how many are there? Taking care of 3 under 5 is so much more tiring than when the kids can start to: tie their own shoes/ buckle their own seatbelts/ tell jokes/ help set the table/ take their own bath etc etc etc. I also would love to know more about how much money the household has- if the wife is doing most of the domestic work, can they afford a cleaner or babysitter, etc? Were any of the families in “more traditional” arrangements in an older and wealthier stage of life?
Second I wondered about the definition of “headship” used in the study about the rise in female headship. Is it basically “chief decision maker”?
To your first point, the study did note that the couples in "equal" relationships had fewer and older kids, which I suspect must be related lol. And they tended to have lower individual incomes than the breadwinner men, but large total household incomes.
I think the definition of "headship" varied but if I understand correctly it's largely a nominal, record-keeping thing for Census-taking. So it's not like it's necessarily tied to decision-making or earning or something like that (though I think the authors suspect that the rise of breadwinning women might explain some of the rise in female headship).
Thanks- Yes, fewer older kids and larger overall household income seem to me like more significant factors than division of labour! I don’t know how you could adjust for it, but it seems like if they could, the outcomes might be very different.
I have no real understanding of the science of stats or data collection so forgive this question but does this mean that for the purposes of census data, in the past, “male headship” meant that the man kept the household records?
Yes, I agree on your first point! I'll have to get back to you on that second question. I suspect not, to be honest. I think it's more like, someone from the Census knocks on your door and asks whoever answers to fill out a form, and there is a spot on there that asks who the head of the household is, without much specification about what that means? I do think that it used to be in the U.S. (and still is in some places), that the wording sort of implies that the head of the household will be the man if the household. But the U.S. and other places have moved to a gender neutral wording. But let me check and get back to you!
Thanks! It’s just fascinating to me bc discussions of headship in marriage more broadly (beyond sociological studies) often fail to define the term, and then if those discussions do cite studies, at that point often nobody is actually talking about the same thing 😅. I feel like at least some arguments might be avoided (or points of disagreement clarified), if there were clearer definitions of terms.
So, did I get that right... they didn't actually study any fully traditional homes? IE where the man was the sole breadwinner?
And I would be interested in seeing how the type of marriage affected other things... such as number of children, years married, etc.
well, no, the sole male breadwinner homes would be included in the semi traditional category. And yeah I would be interested in that, too.
Cause it seems to be there’s a pretty big gap between ‘semi’ and ‘full’ in that area. I say that as a ‘full’ :)
i mean the 40% line is just the upper bound of income that the women in the category could make. Not the average or median. But yeah broad category.
Well, yes. But on philosophical grounds (which one would suppose would make a difference in the way the marriage works out) there seems to be a pretty clean break between “My wife works outside the home, just not that much (or I make a lot more than she does?)” vs “My wife doesn’t work outside the home.”
Yeah maybe, though I am not sure sole male breadwinning always (or even usually) represents a unique philosophical stance. Other than "I am doing what I think is best for my family right now," which underpins a ton of work arrangements. It would certainly be interesting to see how relationship satisfaction in sole male breadwinner marriages compares to others. Kinda doubt they'd be specifically better off than the other semi traditional couples tbh but perhaps!
Just after our exchange, I saw this article: https://www.f0xr.com/p/the-amish-fertility-miracle-part
Well, I think that there are a lot of variables that should be measured, not merely‘satisfaction’. Including number of children.
But I would be very surprised if a large percentage of sole male breadwinner families weren’t founded on a religious belief.